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rózne style walki batem

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rózne style walki batem
« : Grudzień 29, 2007, 03:06:52 »

siedzác w nocy w robocie i lukajac na youtube postanowilem zrobi zestawienie styli walki batem z którymi sié zetknolem -nie oceniam ich skutecznosci czy widowiskowosci tylko chcialem pokazac ich róznorodnosc

kung-fu
TKD-nie TKD ale tez koreanskie -sipalki
kali-eskrima (sporo róznych styli) - pambuan,san miguel eskrima,balitok eskrima, sayoc , latigo&daga
Pentiak siljat
whipboxing
american old style
i taki styl .... uliczny  np takim batem :kopara:
« Ostatnia zmiana: Marzec 09, 2008, 02:12:16 wysłane przez kooniu »
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z gówna bata nie ukręcisz ....

( do I need another whip? No. Do I want another whip? Yeah. ) (from COW forum )
kooniowe baty- http://kooniu.whips.pl

mam stronkę!!!!! http://kooniu.whips.pl
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Odp: rózne style walki batem
« Odpowiedz #1 : Grudzień 29, 2007, 01:28:54 »

co to jest ten american old style?
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Odp: rózne style walki batem
« Odpowiedz #2 : Grudzień 29, 2007, 01:43:12 »

tak sobie nazwali amerykanie walkę długim bullem- dostałem tę inormację na priwa od jednego kolesia z whip enthuzjast - wg mnie to dorabianie ideologi (nazwy) do tego co robi np.de longis i inni hollywoodzcy choreografowie

edyta- zdrugiej strony nie rozumiem czemu nie jest to modern styl ?? :? dalej mysle ze dorabiaja jeszcze historie do tego  ;>
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z gówna bata nie ukręcisz ....

( do I need another whip? No. Do I want another whip? Yeah. ) (from COW forum )
kooniowe baty- http://kooniu.whips.pl

mam stronkę!!!!! http://kooniu.whips.pl
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Odp: rózne style walki batem
« Odpowiedz #3 : Grudzień 29, 2007, 03:19:08 »

Czy skrót TKD ma oznaczać Taekwondo? (bo tak się go używa najczęsciej) Jeśli tak to musiałeś coś pokręcić bo w tkd nie ma żadnej broni i nigdy nie było (a batów to już w ogole:-) ) 
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"Kiedy ty odpoczywasz, twój przeciwnik trenuje"

"Cała rzecz polega jedynie na tym, że kiedy chcesz zarąbać na śmierć swego wroga, masz ciąć tak, by ten zginął, bynajmniej nie biorąc sobie za cel tego, jaki ma być cios: mocny czy słaby." - Miyamoto Musashi, Gorin no Sho - Zwój czwarty: Krąg Wiatru
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Odp: rózne style walki batem
« Odpowiedz #4 : Grudzień 29, 2007, 04:40:12 »

tak sie reklamują

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/zPOHfGeTSyU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/zPOHfGeTSyU</a>
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z gówna bata nie ukręcisz ....

( do I need another whip? No. Do I want another whip? Yeah. ) (from COW forum )
kooniowe baty- http://kooniu.whips.pl

mam stronkę!!!!! http://kooniu.whips.pl
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Odp: rózne style walki batem
« Odpowiedz #5 : Grudzień 29, 2007, 05:40:24 »

Ale oni nic nie mówią że to jest TKD, jedynie ze na tym "2003 North Austin Tae Kwon Do seminar" byl pokaz filipinskiej walki batem:-) W TKD na 1000% nie ma bata. Aczkolwiek ta dyskusja o TKD jest w sumie lekkim offtopem generalnie rzecz biorąc...:-)
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"Kiedy ty odpoczywasz, twój przeciwnik trenuje"

"Cała rzecz polega jedynie na tym, że kiedy chcesz zarąbać na śmierć swego wroga, masz ciąć tak, by ten zginął, bynajmniej nie biorąc sobie za cel tego, jaki ma być cios: mocny czy słaby." - Miyamoto Musashi, Gorin no Sho - Zwój czwarty: Krąg Wiatru
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Odp: rózne style walki batem
« Odpowiedz #6 : Grudzień 29, 2007, 05:43:47 »

a to przepraszam- nie skumałem Chichot i dzięki za zwrócenie uwagi nie chciałbym żyć w błędnym mniemaniu i jeszcze to głosić  8o
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z gówna bata nie ukręcisz ....

( do I need another whip? No. Do I want another whip? Yeah. ) (from COW forum )
kooniowe baty- http://kooniu.whips.pl

mam stronkę!!!!! http://kooniu.whips.pl
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Odp: rózne style walki batem
« Odpowiedz #7 : Grudzień 29, 2007, 07:58:10 »

Zdaje mnie się, że Latigo&Daga to Kali.
Generalnie "Kali" to grupa sztuk walki z Filipin (i okolic), w której skład wchodzi między innymi walka batem, której Tom  Meadows (twórca Latigo&Daga) nauczył się od Dana Inosanto (mistrza Kali).
A Kali-Eskrima oznacza stricte walkę pałką (pałkami).
Możliwe,że cosik pokręciłem bo FMA już nie trenuje i z tematu trochę wypadłem.
Może Kaligula sprostuje?

I do listy trza dodać Pentjak Silat.
« Ostatnia zmiana: Grudzień 29, 2007, 08:01:38 wysłane przez paproch »
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hmmm cos mi sie wydaje ze nei zrozumiałes do końca... robisz pod nad pod nad (2 razy pod 2 razy nad). rzemień musi iśc naprzemian. Nie dwa razy nad któymś albo dwa razy pod.
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Odp: rózne style walki batem
« Odpowiedz #8 : Grudzień 30, 2007, 12:12:53 »

klasyfikacja filipiskich styli jest trudna bo wlasciwie co wyspa to inna nazwa, co rodzina inny styl ale faktycznie meadows wyszedl z dogsów (znaczy tam m.innymi sie uczyl) i sam klasyfikuje sié jako kali wiéc pozmienialem co nieco - bedé edytowal ta liste zgodnie z uwagami


edyta :
dodam moze linki do batów w poszczególnych szkolach
sayoc -cow whip  http://sayoc.com/store/index.php?cPath=27
san miguel eskrima i kilka innych - dlugi rope whip taki jak ten :
latigo&daga - krótki bull 4'6" -5
whipboxing - 5' ft stock whip
american style - 8' bull
« Ostatnia zmiana: Grudzień 30, 2007, 07:32:53 wysłane przez kooniu »
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z gówna bata nie ukręcisz ....

( do I need another whip? No. Do I want another whip? Yeah. ) (from COW forum )
kooniowe baty- http://kooniu.whips.pl

mam stronkę!!!!! http://kooniu.whips.pl
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Odp: rózne style walki batem
« Odpowiedz #9 : Marzec 09, 2008, 02:14:34 »

znalazlem kolejná martial arm czyli Sipalki - nie zabijaja mnie jako specjalnie technikami ale maja i przechwyty i uderzenia i rzuty batem
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z gówna bata nie ukręcisz ....

( do I need another whip? No. Do I want another whip? Yeah. ) (from COW forum )
kooniowe baty- http://kooniu.whips.pl

mam stronkę!!!!! http://kooniu.whips.pl
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Odp: rózne style walki batem
« Odpowiedz #10 : Listopad 24, 2009, 06:37:18 »

Co do koreańskiego Sibpalgi (Sipalki) to raczej nie tradycyjny styl koreański tylko nazwa na ćwiczone kiedyś w Korei chińskie sztuki walki, głównie 18 tradycyjnych broni (chińskich), gdzie bicza jako takiego nie było. Cep był chyba najbliżej... Tak że chyba ktoś coś sobie wymyślił współcześnie. Co do Chin, można uznać, że użycie typowego bicza ćwiczono w niektórych stylach kung fu, ale to duża rzadkość i mało o tym wiadomo.

Mongołowie potrafią się tradycyjnie posługiwać biczem w bójkach ale nie jest to w ramach żadnej tzw. sztuki walki.

Buriaci mieli niby jakąś sztukę walki pod nazwą Buhe Barildaan której szkoła Hara Moriton obejmowała niby walkę biczem i arkanem, ale, o ile jest to prawda, to dotyczy sztuki walki historycznej, wątpię aby coś przetrwało do teraz.

Z kolei indyjscy Sikhowie w ramach swoich sztuk walki zwanych obecnie pod ogólną nazwą Gatka, mieli podobno walkę biczem.

Bicz jest raczej bardzo rzadko spotykany w tzw. sztukach walki i nie ma co się dziwić. Jest naturalnie znany i rozumiany w kulturach opierających się na koniu i pasterstwie owiec lub bydła. Jako broń nadaje się bardziej do użycia z konia niż pieszo, historycznie: przeciwnik który też jest na koniu i jest uzbrojony też w bicz albo włócznię lub szablę, nie może szybko manewrować aby wykorzystać niecelne trafienie biczem, przeciwnik pieszy nie jest w stanie tego robić ze względu na przeszkodę jaką jest manewrujący koń... Mimo tego, bicz był używany przez jeźdźców (głównie mongolsko-tatarskich, w czasach późniejszych sporadycznie przez węgierskich)w bitwach jako broń drugo-trzeciorzędna, i to głównie bicz z kulką ołowianą lub żelazną w końcówce, zwykły, "goły" bicz nie miał dostatecznej mocy aby zrobić krzywdę komuś odzianemu "bojowo". To i tak tylko spekulacje co do długich biczy używanych w bitwach. Znam tylko jedną informację o ich użyciu. Co innego krótsza i zaopatrzona w cięższy ładunek w końcówce nahajka. Jednak i ta była używana raczej jako broń dodatkowa.

W walce pieszego "biczownika" z przeciwnikiem uzbrojonym w jakąkolwiek broń białą, biczownik musi być mistrzem aby sprostać średnio wyszkolonemu, ale zdeterminowanemu przeciwnikowi prącemu do przodu. Nie mówimy już nawet o przeciwniku uzbrojonym w długą włócznię... Wystarczy człowiek z szablą, mieczem, czy nawet nożem. Pierwszy strzał biczownika mija celu i w ciągu 2-3 sekund (jak ktoś nie wierzy, niech sprawdzi, ile naprawdę trwają 3 sekundy) przeciwnik dopada biczownika i robi mu kuku. No chyba, że biczownik dalej jest swego rodzaju mistrzuniem dzierżącym w lewej ręce też nóż czy coś innego...

Następna rzecz: pierwowzory większości tzw. sztuk walki bronią, zawsze zakładały użycie broni w bitwie, w ramach jakiejś tam formacji, zwłaszcza formacji piechoty. Nie muszę chyba tłumaczyć że bicz nie miał tu miejsca.

Kolejna rzecz: bicz jest bronią której nauczanie raczej wymyka się schematowi: stary supermmistrz (guru, sifu, sensei, grandmaster itp.itd.itp) ujawnia przez dziesiątki lat tajemnice jego użycia swoim uczniom. Duży uśmiech Raczej jak ktoś załapie o co chodzi w biczu, nie potrzebuje już żadnych tajnych instrukcji tylko dalszej praktyki, i tyle.

Dlatego moim zdaniem bicz nie nadaje się do tzw. sztuk walki i dobrze. Bicz w zastosowaniach bojowych to narzędzie indywidualistów. Raczej hardcorowych indywidualistów  Duży uśmiech I niech tak pozostanie..
« Ostatnia zmiana: Listopad 24, 2009, 06:49:51 wysłane przez Wosiu »
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Odp: rózne style walki batem
« Odpowiedz #11 : Listopad 25, 2009, 12:48:55 »

kurcze nie wiem jak to z tymi mongolami jest  Smutny

wiadomo ze bicz od nich przywędrowal do europy, są na to dowody w malarstwie na przyklad, ale na stepach go nie ma!!! Mongolowie do poganiania stad urzywaja arkanów czyli dlugich drewnianych tyczek z petla na jednym końcu. mój serdeczny przyjaciel który od lat do mongolii jeździ na ryby , znajac moję hobby usilowal kupić bat ale oni po prostu go nie znają!!! podejrzewam ze zapomnieli , tak samo jak my zapomnieliśmy a jeszcze 100 lat temu byl w Polsce w powszechnym uzytku co choćby na obrazach Kossaka widać.
« Ostatnia zmiana: Listopad 25, 2009, 12:51:25 wysłane przez kooniu »
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z gówna bata nie ukręcisz ....

( do I need another whip? No. Do I want another whip? Yeah. ) (from COW forum )
kooniowe baty- http://kooniu.whips.pl

mam stronkę!!!!! http://kooniu.whips.pl
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Odp: rózne style walki batem
« Odpowiedz #12 : Listopad 25, 2009, 11:51:17 »

Kurcze, trochę mnie zaskoczyłeś. Ale przypominam sobie z filmów, że przynajmniej mają krótkie baty do poganiania koni, z rączką z nogi gazeli. Można takie kupić w Mongolianshop.com:

http://mongolianshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=49&products_id=358
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Odp: rózne style walki batem
« Odpowiedz #13 : Listopad 25, 2009, 12:50:55 »

dzięki ze pokazaleś tą stronke - może się skuszę, świadczylo by to ze choc w gere tradycja wyginela to ktos gdzies ja nadal kultywuje (choćby dla turystów ) podobnie jest z lucznictwem tradycyjnym paru ludzi robi i strzela z luków - na co dzień uzywają jednak kalacha  Spoko
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z gówna bata nie ukręcisz ....

( do I need another whip? No. Do I want another whip? Yeah. ) (from COW forum )
kooniowe baty- http://kooniu.whips.pl

mam stronkę!!!!! http://kooniu.whips.pl
  • kooniu
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Odp: rózne style walki batem
« Odpowiedz #14 : Czerwiec 11, 2010, 01:06:05 »

odkopuję ale znalazlem fajny artykuł, a wlasciwie rozdzial z "New Bullwip Book" i kilka innych na ten sam temat to postanowilem wam je pokazać


Extract from The New Bullwhip Book

Most of the whips that are cracked today evolved just for making a noise, to herd cattle or perhaps to control sled dogs. They are not intended to hit anything or anyone, except in emergency. If you use a whip to hit livestock, you run the risk of doing too much damage, breaking bones or leaving open wounds that may get infected. There is one type of whip that has a more sordid history, though, and that is the short blacksnake. Part whip and part blackjack, it is a vicious street fighting weapon.

A blackjack (also called a cosh outside the US) is small club with a flexible handle and a lead weight on the end, usually with a leather cover. A light tap on the skull with one of these is enough to render the victim unconscious, and a full force hit will break bones. In many jurisdictions it is illegal to carry one.

Some time, probably in the early 19th century, a canny whip maker had the bright idea of loading the handle of a short snakewhip with lead shot and selling it for use as a blackjack. While there might be a law against carrying a blackjack, there was no law against walking around with a whip rolled up in your pocket. Often these whips will have some fancy plaiting beginning a three or four inches (75mm. to 100mm.) into the thong. This is to give a better grip when the whip is reversed and used as a club. If the whip is grasped a bit further down the thong, then the handle can be swung like a nunchuck, too.

Blacksnakes have attracted the attention of luminaries from Mark Twain to Russ Meyer. In The Galaxy, December 1870, Mark Twain wrote:
How well I remember my grandmother's asking me not to use tobacco, good old soul! She said, "You're at it again, are you, you whelp? Now, don't ever let me catch you chewing tobacco before breakfast again, or I lay I'll black snake you within an inch of your life! I have never touched it at that hour of the morning from that time to the present day.
A century later, Russ Meyers movie Black Snake: The Whip told the story of a slave revolt on a Caribbean island. Instead of Meyers usual exploitation of female anatomy, this film used the crack of the whip for its shock appeal.

A whip is at its most dangerous at the moment it cracks, and it is usually fully extended when this happens. For a short whip the danger zone is between four and six feet (1.2m. to 1.8m.) from the whip handler. If you are facing an opponent with a short whip in a fight, you have two options. You can run away, or you can move closer and attempt to punch, kick or grapple with the whip handler. If you are closer than four feet (1.2m), you are too close to be easily hit by the cracking end of a whip, but watch out for a quick flip or a switch to the other hand to turn that whip into a blackjack.

Short whip fighters will usually retreat from someone who tries to grapple with them, while dealing quick stinging blows aimed at both sides of the head and torso. When a blow connects and the pain distracts the opponent, the whip handler can then reverse the whip and use the handle for a disabling blow.

The best cracks to use for short whip fighting are variations of the sidearm and overhand flick. A whip handler should avoid moves like the forward crack, which have a long setup and thus telegraph her intentions to an opponent. Strokes may alternate from the left and right hand sides or stay on the same side of the body. In either case, the follow through from one stroke must be the setup for the next. The whip should be continually moving in ever changing unpredictable vertical and diagonal planes. Moves in a pure horizontal plane should be avoided unless the whip is very stiff, as the follow through may wrap around and hit the whip handler on the back. Even if the whip is not travelling fast enough to be painful at this point it takes too long to reverse the motion and bring the whip back to fighting mode, and it is quite undignified.

The basic exercises you should practice if you want to defend yourself with a short whip are the continuous overhand flick on both sides of your body, and the X pattern. Then, by switching from one pattern to another and varying angles and timing you can create an intimidating defensive screen of fast moving leather.

One way that a whip fighter can prevent someone moving inside the danger zone is to use a knife in the other hand. Whip and knife techniques are taught in Filipino martial arts such as Kali. One form of whip traditionally used was the buntot pagi or tail of a stingray! The poison was left in the sting making this a particularly vicious weapon.

A weapon called the sjambok originated in Southern Africa, and is now widely available. Its similar to a whip in that it is a flexible tapered hand weapon between about three to five feet (0.9m to 1.5m.) in length. However, the sjambok is not flexible enough to crack and does not have a popper. It is only intended as a weapon, and is carried by South African police for riot control, instead of the nightstick or truncheon we are familiar with in the US. Originally they were made from a single strip of thick hippopotamus, elephant or rhino hide, rounded by rolling between steel plates and tapered from a little over one inch (25mm.) in diameter down to three eighths of an inch (9mm.). These days cheap but effective plastic versions are common and can be found for a few dollars on Ebay. The hippo versions sometimes turn up there too, selling for fifty dollars or more. Being more rigid than a genuine whip they are easier to control, and thus require less training to use effectively.

I have seen a shot loaded snake whip for self-defense. It has with two metal rings at the handle end, which allow it to be fastened round your waist and used as a belt. Note that unless you have spent a number of hours practicing the use of a whip, pepper spray is likely to provide a more effective form of defense, if it is legal in your jurisdiction. The other advantage of pepper spray is that when you take it out to use it, your pants dont fall down.

Longer whips can be used as weapons, but they require a different set of techniques. As well as striking, the whip can be used to wrap a body or limb and disarm an opponent or pull them off balance. A wrap aimed at about knee height followed by a sharp tug on the whip will bring most people to their knees.

It takes an appreciable amount of time to set up and crack a long whip, and the danger zone is further away from the whip handler. An opponent who judges the timing correctly can avoid the blow and then step inside the whip handlers danger zone before he has time to set up another crack. At this point the whip handler has several options.

As with a short whip, a knife can be held in the other hand to discourage a close approach, or the handle of the whip can be used as a club. However, the extra length of the thong allows additional moves. The handle can be thrown or swung while holding on to the thong. Many techniques used in Kung Fu for a weapon called the rope dart can be used with a reversed whip. If youve never seen a rope dart, look out for the movie Shanghai Noon where Jackie Chan improvises one out of a lariat and a horseshoe.

The length and rigidity of a bullwhip or cow whip handle allow it to be used as you would a stick, to block blows with other weapons, or to hit and thrust. Theres another possibility, too. If the whip handler can flip a loop of the thong over the opponents head, pulling on the thong and pushing with the handle held horizontally will result in a chokehold, or if done forcefully can crush a windpipe. (Chokeholds can be extremely dangerous. Do not attempt to practice them without coaching from an experienced martial arts master.)

A loop of the whip can be used in other ways. If the thong is doubled back and held in the same hand as the handle it can deliver a powerful blow, extending the reach of an arm. If an opponent tries to kick, it can be hooked around an incoming leg and used to pull him off balance.

Overall, though, in spite of the emotional and artistic appeal long whips are not the most effective weapons for self-defense. I asked a black belt friend of mine who also cracks whips if she would rather face an opponent with or without a whip in her hand. She responded:
Having something to hand is always nice - I'd rather hit hard things like skulls with something other than a fragile hand. And it would be helpful in making a safe getaway - being able to back off and keep him at a distance would be helpful (or at least it would if my aim were better). I can think of ways I'd could use a bullwhip to, for example, remove a knife from a hand. But would I, as a choice? Probably only in limited situations - like someone with a knife standing just outside my kicking range, where I could hit the hand with the butt end (hiding the swing with my body - the perfect set-up is needed) or with the end, and do a wrap. I think using the bullwhip is like jujitsu rather than karate - in karate, you have a few dozen techniques, most of which can be used in pretty much any situation. In jujitsu you have hundreds of techniques, each applicable to only particular set-ups and attacks.

The sound of a whip crack will grab the attention of a room full of people, and the whip can then be used as a threat to control a group, especially if a long whip is cracked over their heads. However, the sound can also be mistaken for that of a gun. A friend of mine was cracking his whip in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco one day, when a police officer came over and asked him to stop because he kept mistaking it for gunfire and it was making him jumpy. Its not healthy to be around nervous cops, so my friend postponed his practice session for another day.

Whipmaker Gayle Nemeth, from Queensland, Australia, is promoting the sport of full contact whip fighting. Contestants wear long heavy coats and fencing masks, and whack away at each other with stock whips. Points are scored for a clean strike to the head only, so the object of the game is to avoid or block your opponents blows, while setting up a clean hit yourself. Gayles sparring partner, Angie Mooney says:
Even though you are protected the sound of the whips hitting is frightening and you can't help flinching as the whip cracks around you! It's amazing!

Perhaps the most amusing method for self-defense using a whip goes as follows. First do your most impressive and stylish multiple crack routine to keep your attacker at bay. Then pretend to accidentally drop your whip. Now stand back and watch while your attacker picks up your whip and injures himself with it!


From Zorro to Indiana Jones and from Catwoman toThe Rundown, whips have graced the silver screen for almost a century. Movies show someone cracking the legs from under an adversary, or taking a gun from their hand. The whip is an elegant weapon but it has some major disadvantages.

Because of the exposure to whips in films and television, people often want to learn the whip as a personal defense weapon.  They want to be able to use a whip in much the same way someone would use martial arts, a sword, or other weapons. But is this really practical as a defense weapon? The simple answer is no.

The whip can generate considerable energy and damage a person’s body severely. Exceeding the speed of sound, the tip of the whip can cut and slice like a knife, and with surgical proficiency in the right hands. But it’s foolish to think it would have the upper hand in any real engagement. Fancy whip work can be fast and impressive to watch, but its use as a defensive weapon is nearly worthless.  Everyone remembers the scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark when Indy faces the swordsman in the Cairo market. The swordsman thrashes the air with his sword trying to look mean, and Indy, exhausted from the chase, simply pulls out his gun and shoots him. As odd as it may sound, this is one of the most realistic scenes ever shown in an action film because it’s closer to what would really happen if a whip faced another weapon.  

If the whip were an effective weapon against swords, guns, and knives, why didn’t Indy just go after the swordsman with his whip? Apart from ‘it wasn’t written that way,’ it is because getting enough time to throw the whip, not to mention to have the space required, wasn’t practical or believable. Besides all of that, the final cut was far more entertaining.

In a more personal situation, imagine that you are face to face with a bad guy – a mugger or burglar. He has a gun and you have your whip.  He’s pointing his gun at you – you throw your whip, and BANG – you’ve been shot. You can’t win. You never had a chance.

Another basic problem with the whip as a defensive weapon is the amount of open space you need for some of the motions. The whip is used in movies to give the user the ability to strike from a safe distance. That makes it appear that he or she has an advantage. Unfortunately, in defense, this is the whip’s Achilles’ heel. Even though it can be done more closely, usually someone using a 6-foot bullwhip needs about an18 foot clear area around him or her to make the whip effective. (This is where the whip guys say, “Hey, I can use a whip in any space,” etc. – right guys, but no one is holding a gun on you.) To continue: you need that space between you and the target to get a whip shot at him with the most energy and force.  If your intention were to actually wrap the bad guy’s legs, or other part of his body, you would need to be even closer – depending on the whip’s length, your ability to wrap, etc. Do you think he’s just going to let you run up and crack a whip at him? Not likely. Then, there’s the problem of him running at you.

That space between the whip handler and the target can rapidly disappear when the subject runs at him. This would render the use of the whip completely ineffective. If the subject gets inside distance the handler cannot extend the length of the whip to crack it or envelop his or her attacker.  Even if the attacker has no gun or knife they could rush the whip handler, knock him or her to the ground and cause injury just as easily without a weapon at all. So can a whip ever make an effective weapon? It could, but only in rare and specific circumstances, and generally, only in the movies.

For a whip to be a useful defense tool, it would nearly always have to be an offensive weapon. Just about the only circumstance that would give a whip handler the advantage in a fight is the element of surprise or some other event where the person already had the upper hand.  If someone is able to surprise an opponent – that is, completely surprise him or her – he might have a chance for a single strike that may give the opportunity for escape.

Often, the storylines in the Zorro films and books are good examples of whips used effectively. In Zorro stories, Don Diego uses the whip to surprise his opponent and in an offensive way. In “The Mask of Zorro,” Zorro (Alex Green in that scene) uses the whip to surprise the firing squad and disarm them momentarily to make his entrance. Once exposed, he can use his whip alongside other weapons to fight his battle or escape. It is no longer effective as a direct attack weapon.

A number of martial arts teachers and performers demonstrate the use of the whip handles as weapons and I suppose that would be possible to some extent. But again, if the other person has a gun, forget it. That’s nonsense and unrealistic.  Of course the question always comes, “What if they have a knife instead of a gun?” The answer is still no. Remember, if the attacker would rush you, it’s over. It just isn’t practical. The best anyone could hope to do is to use the whip to keep an attacker at bay long enough to escape.

In ‘The Rundown,’ a chair was cut in two pieces by a whip. Ok, let me say this only once, and clearly: NO WAY. Keep in mind that it’s a movie. Stage furniture is set to break on purpose. Those of you out there who want to learn to cut your kitchen chairs in half can forget it. Save the money on the whips and buy a couple of good chainsaws.  The movie also shows the whip’s tip being caught by The Rock when it’s cracked at him. That is possible if it’s staged that way – but not if someone is actually trying to cut the person catching it.

Just as we do wraps and other moves with the whip on stage and film that look dangerous, it’s possible to work out a throw that someone can catch with relative safety. It’s similar to the way one may do a wrap or body crack, but someone should do a great deal of practicing before trying this out on a person.

Finally, whenever I give a lecture on the whip and the subject of self-defense comes up, I always hear a groan from the audience when they learn that it’s not a good idea to count on the whip to fend off a mugger. Remember that the sport of whip cracking is growing and people often emulate what they see in movies and television.

The basic rule is to be careful. Fight directors and special effects teams stage most of what’s shown in movies - as much as we’d like to believe otherwise. Professional stuntmen like Alex Green know what to do to set these events for the camera. They have a dozen people around making sure the moves go correctly and safely. They are not out there fighting crime on the streets of New York, or looking for treasure in the Amazon jungle.

There is plenty you can learn from these movies in the art of whip work, but be sure you know what is possible and what is Hollywood. If you have any doubts, talk to someone who knows - a whip coach, stuntman, or production specialist – and learn what you can about the physics and use of the whip. As always, before you use another person to do targeting or other stunts, practice – practice – practice.

Good luck and keep it safe.



The Story of the Bullwhip

By Gery L. Deer

March 2001

 

The story of the bullwhip can be traced back as far as there are records of man. The early Egyptians used bullwhips to move oxen and as signaling devices. In the 1800's the  "bullwhacker," as he or she was called back in the old American west, used the sound of the bullwhip to move herds of cattle, sheep, and horses from range to range. Often wagon trains making up an entire cattle-raising community would accompany the herds. If the bullwhacker were to accidentally strike an animal with his whip, he could start a stampede that would destroy the entire wagon train and result in deaths of men and livestock.

    Whips are often associated with abuse, injury, slavery, or other more unpleasant concepts. The bullwhip is unique in that it was rarely used for these practices because its function does not require that it come into physical  anything. Flogs, multi-tailed lashes, and other such devices were used in cases such as these.

    There is a common misconception that the word "bullwhip" meant that the whip was used to literally whip a bull in some fashion. As we just mentioned that could prove quite dangerous. In fact, the name of this whip has two origins.

    The name "bullwhip" comes from its original function - to move the main leader of a herd, the bull, and so that the rest will follow him.

    The whip that I started out with on my family's cattle farm more than 20 years ago was an American, swivel-handle bullwhip. This whip, seen in the photo to the left, is not as precise as its Australian cousin since it has no "underbelly." Its core is primarily bailing twine, so it is very limp and loose. It makes targeting difficult for such things as the candle-snuff or precision cuts. It is a very durable and strong whip, however, and can take more outdoor punishment than many other styles and is popular with livestock workers in inhospitable climates.

 

   The short-handled Australian, or "Indiana Jones" style whip (photo below left), as it is sometimes called, is much more precise. This style of whip is a hybrid of the Australian type and the American, short-handled bullwhip. The Australian whip pictured here belongs to Gery. It is a 12-plait, double-belly whip and is about 10 feet in length. The Australian whip is precise because it is essentially 3 whips braided around each other making up the thong, or body of the whip. A leather bolster encases the two inner whips and it is covered f
inally with a 12-strand (plait) outer layer.

"I have taught the whip as a fighting weapon for over fifteen years. Peter Jack's self defense styled whips are exceptional, and his basic self defense whip is the foundation for the standard whip used by my students. The Latigo y Daga whip is a serious no-nonsense fighting whip that enables effortless manipulation. The balance allows effortless control of the forward portion of the thong, and the extra mass from the shot loading significantly increases the power delivered into the body of an opponent. A strike to the body with any portion of the thong has a significant impact, and when the whip is folded in half and gripped as a flail it has the same lethal potential as a lead loaded sap."

Tom Meadows
Founder, Latigo y Daga whip and dagger fighting system

A review from Ron Lew.

Hello Peter
Just to give some feedback on the 3 Whips received. I have several other whips and by far these I consider far easier to work with right out of the box. I had one of my beginning students try mine....He was amazed all easy it was to work with them. He was able to some movements that he was having trouble doing before. In fact, he created some cracks I have never thought of doing before...mind you, he just started with the Whip 2 months ago. I was blown away of the color combo and pattern you have created. By far, this is my favorite whip; in design and responsiveness. What you and Tom Meadows have design and created is a Superior Defense Whip: Latigo Y Daga.

Handle: Perfect in Length - my Novice Student stated that it fit like a glove. There was no hunting around for the right feel. I totally agree. It is very comfortable and the Whip feels as an extension of your hand and arm movement. My 4 ft Whip is 3/4 longer. It feels much better shorter (at your length).Whip length: 4 ft 6 inches - perfect. I have two, 4 footers. The 4ft 6 works really well. There is no lag time between hand movement and Crack of the.

Whip; perfectly synchronized Fall length: Of the 3 Whips that you send to me, one was 24-1/2(Black &
Red), 27-3/4 (Black & Red)and 28 (Black). - Working with all 3, I found that the 27-3/4 and 28 inches worked well. -The 24-1/2 had a little delay (lag) between hand movement and Whip Crack.Popper: Volley - that worked really well. I normally use Z69 Bonded Nylon. I really like the Volley in response and subsonic pops; very easy to do what I call "Baby Pops". No force involve; it just pops with gentle Whip movements.
I will try your assortment at a later date. Leather Softness: The Quality of Kangaroo leather is very superior. It is so soft. After using your special wax, in one day I had the shape I wanted. Shot Loaded: Excellent. Very responsive. It cracked and moves exactly where I want the Whip to go. There is no lag.

Bee Wax: Wow, it works great. It doesn't leave a greasy/waxy feel; in fact, I didn't have to wipe it off with a towel. I have been using Pacard Wax. I am sold on yours. Tom Meadows states that my Wife would probably like it as well....I am not telling her anything about this. Bottom Knob: I like the size; it allows me to change grip in varying grip position. Perfect Size. And I like your Trade Mark there.. Well, that's all I can think of for now. Thanks again for a great job. I know you will have some more orders from me...I had a tough time getting my new Whip back from my student. He didn't to part with it.... Ron


Comparing Two LyD Whips
One of my students got an LyD whip from Peter Jack last week. It only took him a week to get it as it was already in stock, the only one. I had maybe a 6 week wait, which was pretty quick for getting one made from scratch.

There were some significant differences between the whips, which surprised me.

The first was obvious. His was solid black, mine is longitudinal (side by side) red and black. I'm giving the edge to his. It simply looks wicked!

The other differences were significant and functional. His handle was surprisingly much shorter. The distance between the facing edges of the knobs on mine is 5.25" edge to edge, his was shorter by 1", and the core rod felt more like 2" shorter.

His whip feels substantially more flexible than mine. It felt like my Blanton whips, whereas mine feels like the Joe Strain I gave to Tom a couple of years ago.

Whether that's a function of the handle differences or in the braid itself I'm not sure; I suspect some of both. I know the Strain whip broke in nicely eventually and I'm hoping this PJ will do the same.

The upshot, though, was that my student's whip is marvelously fluid right out of the box, while mine after a much longer period of use is still stiffer. I offered to swap him on the spot, which tells you what I thought of the differences. He declined (I knew he was a smart guy but I had to try!)

posted by Latigo y Daga Association at 9:40 AM 0 comments  


Issue Date :   11 / 1994    3,751 Words   
Author :   David Hicks
David Hicks is professor of anthropology at the State University of New York at Stony Brook. He has written and translated six books on anthropology, the most recent of which is Cultural Anthropology, coauthored with Margaret A. Gwynne.    

       Blood swathed its long, oozy stripe like a scarlet scimitar across the bronzed back of the young man as he flinched at the stroke of the buffalo whip. The spectators' appreciative hoots resounded around the village, and his rival jumped into the air in ecstatic proclamation of victory. Winning the whip fight, marked by success at drawing blood from a stalwart foe, would assuredly bring fertility to the victor's village lands and women alike. It would encourage the rains to arrive promptly, and the crops would be nourished. There would be a good harvest for the Manggarai people in the months to come.
        
       That scorching summer afternoon in Boleng, a remote corner of Flores Island, Indonesia, I witnessed the most dramatic of Manggarai institutions. The main caci (tournament of whip fighting) embodies the intricate and complex values that give Manggarai culture its character. The main caci is performed on occasions sanctioned by religious tradition (although the impact of outsiders and tourism means that this is no longer exclusively so). Elders from the village selected as the site for one of these ritualized battles invite young men from other villages in the neighborhood to visit and challenge their young men to contests of blood.
        
       The agility, speed, and toughness required by its participants in that the main caci's origins may lie in ancient training that prepared warriors for war. Today's intentions are less murderous. A community organizes a tournament to ask the spiritual world of ancestors to make the marriage of a prominent couple fruitful; or as a thanksgiving before harvest; or after harvesting, to persuade the ghosts to renew their favors when the next round of planting rolls round. The most important occasion is in early October, ... (1997 of 22940 Character
 
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